PCIM

The writer of Revelation is the Apostle John. This is the same man, who wrote I John, II John and III John. I will delve into I John, as I prepare this lesson.

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby, know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God: and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist whereof ye have heard that it should come: and even now, already is it in the world."
I John 4:1 -3

One of the main things, I have had a problem with, as I've met Christians, both in the 'net and even brothers and sisters, in town, is that everyone wants their particular denomination to be known as the one.
A few years ago, I asked a relative what denominaton he thought Jesus was and he replied, "Baptist." I countered with, "No. Jesus was the Nazarene." Truth be told, neither of us was completely correct though.
Jesus' brand of christianity is far and above anything any of us have ever, or will ever (this side of eternity) experienced. When you have a squabble about church doctrine, it's always true that neither descenting party is right.
Why? Because Jesus died to bring His people together....not to separate us. When we argue insignificant points of doctrine, we're only working against His purpose, which was to be lifted up so all men could be drawn to Him.

My thinking is this: As long as a denominatoin seeks to lift up the Risen King of kings, that is a good church to attend.
When I was 16 and living with my grandma, I, first, wanted to attend an Independent Baptist Church. It was during the five months, between May and November of 1977, that I became a hippy (in their eyes) and the Lord wanted me in a Southern Baptist Church at the time, so I moved.
People, from the first group, demanded that I was giving in to the ways of the world, while people, in the second, noticed that I was laboring for His glory - regardless of the length of my hair.

I'm using this as an example to show how one group took a verse out of context and made it a black and white "sin" for a man to have his hair over his ears. They didn't stop to realize that the Corinthian custom was for a man to have his head shaved, before he entered the temple and that Paul was admonishing us to worship.

So, the question, coming into my mind, is this: Is everything we think actually in perfect harmony with the Word?

Gary, do you remember a thread I posted in the old board called "Does this mean what I think it means?"?

In that thread I posted: Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Well, does it mean what I think it means? Is the Apostle telling us we aren't going to agree until the body of Christ is perfected (complete) and we have received our glorified bodies? It certainly doesn't mean we should try to agree. I believe it is prophesy that we just aren't until the fruition of God's plan. Not that God wills it. Just that is the way it is because of man's sin nature... You tell me.

Tim,
You're right...we won't. It's not because the Father desires it to be that way, mind you, it's because we, His people, haven't achieved His perection.
I think of it like this: In Heaven, Jesus' voice will be the first, I'll hear. In Heaven, no illness or pain will plague us. In Heaven, no one will be ignored.
AND we'll be like Him.....Perfect, which means we'll no longer feel a need to strive for that perfection. I mean, why would we strive to attain something that is already ours?

It's past the midnight hour and I'm delving through my old writings, in this discussion.
When I mentioned that we have yet to attain the Lord's perfection (and I realize the "f" key didn't catch, above - sorry), I didn't think of what I just remembered.

When I was in high school, I read a book, the name of which I've long since forgotten, in which the author wrote of his death experience.
The man had fallen off a balcony, landed on his head and immediately, was in heaven, where he saw things we can only dream of seeing.
For one, as he walked along, he noted how bright it was. When he questioned, aloud, the answer was there..."On earth, you have the light of the sun, which is imperfect. In Heaven, you have the Light of the Son, which is perfect and, because you've attained the Lord's perfection, the brightness won't bother you."
He then, noted every rose was exactly the same and the answer was, these are perfect. On earth, they're imperfect, so they differ, one from another. Perfect roses are exactly the same."

With that in mind, I'll, now, attempt to offer a better answer to Tim's question: Yes, I think we'll need to attain the Lord's perfection, meaning we'll have to be rid of any pride, rebellion, etc., before all of us can agree on everything.

HI Gary and Tim,

I'm starting with Eph. 4; 7-17.
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

17This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

I believe this is the answer to our growth in our walk with our Lord.

Yet grace (God's unmerited favor) was given to each of us individually [not indiscriminately, but in different ways] in proportion to the measure of Christ's [rich and bounteous] gift.
8Therefore it is said, When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive and He bestowed gifts on men.[But He ascended?] Now what can this, He ascended, mean but that He had previously descended from [the heights of] heaven into [the depths], the lower parts of the earth?
He Who descended is the [very] same as He Who also has ascended high above all the heavens, that He [His presence] might fill all things (the whole universe, from the lowest to the highest).
And His gifts were [varied; He Himself appointed and gave men to us] some to be apostles (special messengers), some prophets (inspired preachers and expounders), some evangelists (preachers of the Gospel, traveling missionaries), some pastors (shepherds of His flock) and teachers.His intention was the perfecting and the full equipping of the saints (His consecrated people), [that they should do] the work of ministering toward building up Christ's body (the church),[That it might develop] until we all attain oneness in the faith and in the comprehension of the [full and accurate] knowledge of the Son of God, that [we might arrive] at really mature manhood (the completeness of personality which is nothing less than the standard height of Christ's own perfection), the measure of the stature of the fullness of the Christ and the completeness found in Him.So then, we may no longer be children, tossed [like ships] to and fro between chance gusts of teaching and wavering with every changing wind of doctrine, [the prey of] the cunning and cleverness of unscrupulous men, [gamblers engaged] in every shifting form of trickery in inventing errors to mislead.Rather, let our lives lovingly express truth [in all things, speaking truly, dealing truly, living truly]. Enfolded in love, let us grow up in every way and in all things into Him Who is the Head, [even] Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
For because of Him the whole body (the church, in all its various parts), closely joined and firmly knit together by the joints and ligaments with which it is supplied, when each part [with power adapted to its need] is working properly [in all its functions], grows to full maturity, building itself up in love.So this I say and solemnly testify in [the name of] the Lord [as in His presence], that you must no longer live as the heathen (the Gentiles) do in their perverseness [in the folly, vanity, and emptiness of their souls and the futility] of their minds.

IN JESUS MY LORD. Parsonsmom.