PCIM

As a young man not yet thirty and married for the last 6 years without children I frequently run into people who kinda look down their nose at me a little bit for not having children. The conversations are always the same,

"So do you have any kids?"
"No"
"How long have you been married?"
"6 years."
(quietly)"Oh."

I have actually had men tell me that it is my duty to God to have children. As ignorant as I find it, I agree to a degree. Today, however, I found a scripture that I believe counters this pretty well.

That verse seems to say that we are to work to take care of ourselves, and afterward build a family. My wife and I are just now getting financially grounded after 6 years. I brought some really bad debt into the relationship, and it has been really tough to overcome. we are turning that corner, and after I find employment again (my plant shut down 3 weeks ago) we may be in a place we can responsibly care for kids.

What do you think, am I misunderstanding this?

I think you have a very good handle on things. Christ said that a wise man, before building a tower, first sits down and counts the cost to be sure he can complete it. In that same vane a wise couple first makes sure that they can reasonably care for children before they bring them into the world. For some people having children should never be an option because they cannot care for them properly, either because of financial considerations or emotional ones. Those people, if they are wise, will never fall to the pressure of having children. Those people who say it is "a persons duty" to have children are merely displaying their foolishness.

We would problably do well to return to the old Hebrew custom of the father choosing when the son should marry. The father would presumably make sure his son was financially stable enough to marry and have children.

Not only that but as I understand Hebraic history, a young man didn't leave his fathers watch care until he was in his late twenties or early thirties.

Just a bit of trivia there...

I agree. It is a little bit more difficult for guys who were in my position at the time, but i teach our kids that a man must be able to take care of himself before he tries to take care of a wife. Seasoned men who know what life brings are better suited for determining this than a young man any day.

I also teach our young men to ask their father before they begin dating, and to ask the girls father before he asks her. someone responsible should make these decisions, and a love sick teenage boy is not the right person.

Come on guys, get REAL! I'm sorry, but I must thoroughly disagree with the arranged marriage deal. But I have a couple of things to address first here.

Theobaud, you are exactly right about that scripture and your belief that a man, and, well ,his wife, too, have a number of adjustments to make in a relationship before they are ready to be parents. I have no problem with that at all! So many young folks enter into marriage and parenting relationships with no thought as to what that involves. My husband had the privilege of preaching this a.m., and he had a wonderful sermon on "Worldly Stinkin' Thinkin'", in which he addressed the mariage and family relationship and spoke of how that relationship is treated far too lightly today. Marriage is to be between one man and his wife for life. Parenting is one of the greatest gifts God gives us, the gift of "procreation". Yet, this is a gift that must be taken very seriously.

For that reason, I thoroughly disagree with the idea of arranged marriages from several perspectives:

First, God tells us in Ephesians that a man is to love his wife as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for it. Now, God the Father, loves His Son and has chosen and called out His bride, the Church. That much is true. However, I know of no other man in the world who can so thoroughly know his son, as God did His, to know exactly the right fit for him.

Also, I don't know of a young woman whose father so knows her heart, that he can see far enough ahead to know exactly the right man that God has for her.

Also, God does say that a man must leave his father and mother and cling to his wife. How does that happen with such pressure from parents?

Marriage in God's Kingdom involves commitment, first of all. How can a father "commit" his son to a woman or what woman's father can "commit" her to a man? Sorry, folks, but only the couple can do that!

But in God's kingdom, marriage also involves LOVE. How can a father "fall" his son in love with a woman??? Or a woman's father "fall " her in love with a man? Can't be. Sorry.

I have read so much about arranged marriages that are extremely unhappy. It's a tough enough situation for a couple to work all these little situations out without outside interference. Parents can think they are doing the right thing for thier children, and be very wrong!

Lastly, Theobaud, I know how tough it is to have folks bugging you and your wife about your not having children. Being unable to bear children myself, I KNOW how that can hurt. I deeply hurt that I could not give my husband children, but God richly blessed us in HIS timing and will with 2 wonderful adopted sons. Hang in there, and you and your wife do what God leads about having children! Don't let anyone else frustrate you. Quick funny for you, Theobaud. Our oldest son (remember he's adopted) was actually born 6 months before we were married. It has been an interesting deal to see little old folks counting on their fingers when they learn when our son was born and when we were married. You will be spared that! Count it a blessing!

Love to all of you! Sorry I have disagreement here, but that doesn't mean for a second that I don't love you all dearly! God bless!

But Gracey, we haven't mentioned the arranged thingey...

If it wasn't you graceblest, I would be offended at such a notion. ( I was here a long time ago on one of the old boards, So i remembers ya!)

I am not saying it should be arranged, just that there ought to be someone there who can think clearly and help make decisions about timing, mate selection and so on. I don't advocate that Parents choose a mate, they just supervise things until the marriage is complete to protect their children, and children should be submissive enough to their parents to trust their wisdom.

That fluffy feeling a kid gets when they meet someone new is very deceptive, and if daddy does not have veto power big mistakes can be made. That fluffy feeling gets broken, and it starts over with the next one that comes along.

Timmy, you wrote: "We would problably do well to return to the old Hebrew custom of the father choosing when the son should marry". Look it up. What is that but arranged marriage??????????

Theobaud, I didn't mean to offend. Yes, parents SHOULD have wisdom enough to guide their children through all the "puppy love" stuff, and they should be VERY influential in all of their children's choices. Unfortunately, too many don't, and frankly, as i was writing this, I was listening to a very chilling FOX News report on "Honor Killing", where the Muslim men are killing their daughters because of choices they are making....choices that they SHOULD have a right to make. I was horrified. I also think of how parents and grandparents abuse and even kill children (like this mother and grandparents of this little missing darling girl in Florida). When parents are true Christians and dedicated to the will of the Lord for thier families, it is a beautiful thing. When they are not, to much horror can happen.

"when" and "who" are different.

Theabaud,
While children born to 18 year old parents can make it in life just fine, it seems so much better...to me...that a child be born to parents who have attained some maturity in all areas of their lives. I think it's great what you and your wife are doing.

mableloretta